The latest genealogists all of the consider this significant you to definitely Nicholas’ spouse Clementia is actually included here as, around regular things, she would not be stated. When Susanna in the particular after day was given out to a different sort of protector, the brand new wife of these protector wasn’t mentioned.

This would imply that Queen John invested sometime truth be told there and you will the possibility of a keen amorous liaison which have Clementia can be acquired

What follows is a principle complex because of the certain eminent genealogists, however it is reasonable to declare that new findings is actually hotly competitive!

Which theory causes a delightful and you can curious ‘twist’ from the tale out-of Joanna, that may attract admirers out-of HBD!

On top, there would be absolutely nothing to suggest one relationship involving the hostage, Susanna out-of Wales and Clementia, partner regarding Nicholas de- Verdun. not, the experience of certain genealogists having foreign hostages, such young ones, could have been that they were commonly https://brightwomen.net/fi/luxembourg-naiset/ set with family members, or no had been readily available.

Bouncing toward 1236, there clearly was an entrance regarding the Tewkesbury annals and this pertains to Joanna’s mommy while the “King Clemencie!” They checks out partly:

Today, we know that mommy from Joanna is titled Clementia (Clemence?

In such a case new monk are plainly indulging when you look at the gothic legalism. Before their own demise, Joanna ended up being legitimised by the Pope. Based on one to legitimisation, the brand new Tewksbury monk plainly grabbed they on himself to elevate Joanna’s mommy on the updates off Queen, as if their unique mother was King John’s wife! It is a fact yet not, that King John and you will Clementia were never hitched. By the dealing with Joanna’s mommy because the “Queen” Clementia, the new monk whom submitted Joanna’s dying try proving their tall regard having Joanna, but not attempting to alter the correct activities.

Are you aware that label away from Clementia de- Verdun, Paget means that she are the fresh new daughter out of Roger de- Dauntsey, from Wiltshire. You to definitely genealogist takes into account they high one to Clementia regarded out-of Wiltshire because the he has got noticed that King John had an effective attachment so you can you to definitely condition, it as the home of his safest allies, the new Longespee, ilies and you may Geoffrey Fitz Peter.

Genealogists have found the term ‘Clementia’ try very rare certainly English noblewomen associated with the period. In one dining table out of women’s names that was gathered, there were simply a couple occurrences of identity “Clementia” away from a maximum of 1407 feamales in the newest shot! That individuals named Clementia will be regarding the Susanna is considered extreme.

Very! Evidence are suggestive, although not conclusive, you to definitely within the 1228, Susanna, since good hostage, got over to the care of their maternal grandma, now partner from Nicholas de Verdun!!

The Scottish genealogists of the MacDuffs’ keep that Susanna ferch Llywelyn was given birth to 1214 from inside the Gwynnedd, Wales and you may passed away c. 1259 in Dunfermline, Fife, Scotland. She partnered Malcolm MacDuff, Earl away from Fife within the 1230 and had a few people: Sir Colbran MacDuff, Earl out-of Fife, created 1245, passed away 1270 and you may MacDuff MacDuff created 1247.

Without a doubt, you’ll find avoid arguments to all so it conjecture! Queen John got of several mistresses and perhaps up to seven illegitimate college students. The caretaker from Joanna could have been produced circa 1172 and you may marriageable circa 1184. Joanna herself came into this world circa 1191 (14 yrs old during their particular wedding to Llywelyn). Rohese, the fresh understood legitimate daughter of Nicholas de Verdun with his wife Clementia was born circa 1210-1213. If the Clementia is actually the caretaker out of Joanna, she would have been in their late 30’s, early 40’s whenever pregnancy so you’re able to Rohese! Perhaps not hopeless, specific state, however, not likely.